E10 S2 | Mind Body Coach Rebecca Tolin Shares How Somatics, Creativity and Curiosity Processed Her Emotional Trauma and Led Her from Health Crash to Cure

Welcome to Episode 10, Season 2 of the Sick and Seeking Podcast!

In this episode, I chat with Rebecca Tolin, a Mind-Body Coach and creator of the Be Your Own Medicine Program. Rebecca shares her experience navigating a medical system focused only on physical symptoms, neglecting the underlying emotional trauma.

Rebecca states:

“Through no fault of my own, I found myself in a system that only focused on physical symptoms. I needed to process emotional trauma to address my symptoms at the root.” - Rebecca Tolin

Conversation Highlights:

• Rebecca’s traumatic experience as a journalist and its impact on her health.
• Her 13-year battle with Chronic Fatigue Syndrome and reliance on allopathic medicine.
• Discovering mind-body healing through Dr. John Sarno’s work, leading to her remission.
• The importance of self-compassion and unconditional love in health management.
• How Mind-Body Coaching helps people find safety within themselves.
• Understanding emotions as cues regarding safety from the brain and nervous system.
• Learning to be present with body sensations through mindful awareness.
• Uncoupling emotions from thoughts during challenging times.
• Honoring internal voices to prevent physical manifestations of unprocessed feelings.
• Connecting with the deeper wisdom of the body, mind, heart, and soul.

Quotes:
“Everything we’re discussing applies whether or not you have a physical illness. It’s about finding acceptance and unconditional love for how we present ourselves.” - Rebecca Tolin

“When I gave loving attention to my body’s sensations, underlying emotions surfaced, often bringing relief. This practice became my medicine.” - Rebecca Tolin

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Transcript

Leslie Field (00:01.254)

Welcome to the Sick and Seeking podcast. I have with me Rebecca Tolan, mind body coach and creator of the Be Your Own Medicine program. Rebecca, it's such a pleasure to have you with us today.

Rebecca Tolin (00:15.804)

Leslie, I'm so happy we could meet. We've been talking about doing this for many months, maybe a couple years, and I'm really happy to be here with you.

Leslie Field (00:26.406)

Ah, so excited. I, yes, agree, agree, agree. Rebecca and I met through a mutual friend and here we are today connecting on a topic that I have so much curiosity about and Rebecca has so much knowledge about, which is different somatic practices, different topics connected to the brain and neural pathways. And let me just let her get into it before I start describing it. I think the best place to start maybe is just.

How did you find yourself where you are today? I know it's a big one, but maybe start from... Yeah.

Rebecca Tolin (01:02.748)

as well just start at the beginning, right? Yeah, because you know, I was a journalist and that's what I wanted to do from the time I was in sixth grade. So I never imagined I would be a mind body coach and working in the healing arts. But life had another plan as I'm sure you can relate as well. And I went through a really traumatic experience when I was abroad and

At that time I was in my early 30s, my health was very good, I was active, I was traveling the world, I was working in TV news. But my whole system crashed shortly after that event. And I became so exhausted, tired and wired, insomniac. We're talking like I could hardly walk around my own house.

So it was a really severe crash after three viruses that I had. And I went to all kinds of doctors and they diagnosed me with chronic fatigue syndrome or ME -CFS. There was lots of other diagnoses too, post -viral syndrome, Epstein -Barr, lots of other ones that came down the road like fibromyalgia.

But in short, they basically said, we don't know the cause, so we really don't know the cure, and you can try to manage it. And as a young woman, who was sort of in my prime in so many ways, it was absolutely devastating. And I tried to go back to work, I just really couldn't stay longer than an hour. Eventually, I had to go on disability.

And what happened over the next 13 years was a long healing journey where I tried so many different things, so many interventions from diets to supplements to medications to therapies that never really were getting to the root cause for me. And I went on like that for many years. And I think what was really getting lost, Leslie, was my emotional self.

Rebecca Tolin (03:23.676)

I really became medicalized in this maze that didn't understand me and what my symptoms were caused from. So I could say much more, but I'll pause there and see what direction you want to go.

Leslie Field (03:38.086)

Yeah.

Leslie Field (03:42.946)

Oh gosh, I think I'm first just always struck by the fact that it's 13 years. I was reading your story recently, and I'll definitely share this in the show notes. And that's the thing about our bodies. That's the thing when trauma happens. That's the thing when we have a diagnosis or an illness, and I'm feeling it really acutely right now is that.

I think these things take time, yet, yet I know from our conversation, you were telling me that all that you've learned and accumulated in knowledge over the years, you've been able to find tools and techniques that you don't have to wait 13 years potentially.

Rebecca Tolin (04:25.308)

Oh, absolutely. And I'm so glad you said that. Because for me, I finally got to this point where, well, I'll sort of describe the evolution. I was trying to fix or cure myself for something that wasn't fixable or curable through allopathic medicine. And so I really wasn't getting anywhere. I was also coming at it from my...

old coping strategies or personality traits I had developed over my life of being a chronic overachiever and someone that pushed myself and I was a perfectionist and a people pleaser and all those things. And I was trying to heal myself that same way, which doesn't work with healing. And so there came a point over the years where I just started noticing that gentle yoga gave me a little bit of relief and

Meditation gave me a little bit of relief, even if it wasn't physical relief, it was mental and emotional peace. And then I started just spontaneously writing poetry when I would go out in nature and I was spending as much time in nature as I could. Sometimes I could only lay in the grass in my backyard and just kind of look up at the leaves on the trees. And I was listening to Eckhart Tolle.

Leslie Field (05:30.566)

Yes.

Rebecca Tolin (05:50.844)

I couldn't read much because I had so much cognitive dysfunction, but I would just kind of let his words sink in and he's all about being in the present moment. And as I stopped fighting my situation and fighting my body, there was this surrender that happened. There was this sense of inner peace. And it's not that there weren't still struggles, but I realized that

both the approach and the modalities I was trying really weren't helping me. And so I think in this more receptive place, I opened to a completely new way. And I happened then to meet this woman through an online writing class who told me she had recovered from chronic fatigue syndrome. Now there's a lot of people who recover from this, but back then there really weren't a lot of stories.

Leslie Field (06:47.396)

Hmm.

Rebecca Tolin (06:47.516)

And so she explained to me she had the same symptoms of exhaustion and brain fog and digestive issues and all sorts of things. And she recovered through this body of work initially brought by Dr. John Sarno. It's a type of mind body healing.

And we talked for three hours on the phone, even though I told her I can only speak for about 10 minutes or I get a migraine. I had so many triggers to the world. I really generally couldn't even socialize much. But she explained her story and listened to mine. And I was getting more and more energy throughout our conversation. And she explained the science to me that when doctors cannot find any disease process or tissue damage, particularly with

whether it's chronic pain or chronic fatigue, there's a process that's happening in the brain and nervous system due to stress, repressed emotions, and trauma. And that as hard as it is to believe, that can cause really incapacitating physical symptoms. And by the end of the conversation, when I really got the science, and I had been a science reporter, so I had to understand it, she said to me, Rebecca, you are not.

sick. And I heard it and I felt it in my being. I'm not sick. This is a response that my body and brain, they're essentially stuck on and they're stuck in this traumatic state. And I leapt up and I said, I'm not sick. And I am not kidding you, I filled with energy and I got off the phone and started running around the block. And I hadn't been able to run in 13 years.

I really could just walk at that point shorter distances. So it wasn't a complete spontaneous remission because symptoms did start coming back because there was all these learned neural pathways in my brain and nervous system. And I still had the underlying trauma. And we know now that these memories are stored in the limbic brain in our sub

Rebecca Tolin (09:04.536)

conscious brain and when we have unprocessed trauma it can continue to send these signals of danger essentially. So then began the next stage of the journey where I really dove into the science and the somatic work and really feeling my emotions but that was a turning point in understanding what was happening to me and I think for me...

I had done a lot of great foundational work with diet and body movement, but I had never felt I was being acknowledged as a human being that has emotions. And doctors hadn't really asked me what happened to you emotionally. Was there anything stressful that happened prior to you being this sort of globe -trotting journalist to you being homebound?

And I finally felt through this body of work and mind -body healing that I could be with myself as a whole person and learn to reintegrate some of the very lost and rejected parts of me.

Leslie Field (10:22.054)

much to take away from what you just said. First, I just want to what keeps coming through so deeply as you're talking is the amount of self -compassion you have for yourself. The compassion you have for yourself. I can feel it so deeply and maybe I can feel it so deeply because this is one of my areas that I struggle with sometimes. So I just wanted to presence that for a moment that

It's really inspiring for me who I was just sharing with Rebecca. I had a really tough week in my body last week. My body and my emotions, and we know they're intricately tied. We'll get more into that. It was a really big struggle. And when you were talking about sitting with yourself with such sort of like presence and almost like being okay with that, it's really inspiring because I know that's a big part of my healing journey is to just sit with myself.

and sit with such a delicate compassion, softness, tenderness. So I think I had to bring this up right now because I'm feeling this so deeply like that you are definitely a teacher and you can feel it that you've walked this path. So now as you're going to hear more about you're helping people and now walk this path and we need this self -compassion. It's a big theme that I keep hearing come up again and again, especially when we talk about traumatic experiences that we've experienced. So.

Thank you for just being you. That sounds really cliche, but thank you.

Rebecca Tolin (11:55.1)

Thank you. Well, I feel so seen by you and what a gift. That was what I was describing I didn't feel for years and I so appreciate you picking up on that Leslie, because even though I hadn't said those words, self -compassion, that you would sense that in me is a sign of deep healing. I was someone who was so self -critical and so self -blaming as so many of us are.

And I was blaming myself all these years for not getting better. Why am I doing all these things and not getting better? Because I had something that doctors couldn't really find a disease process. It's not that the symptoms aren't real. They're 100 % real and they can be completely disabling. But I think going from blaming myself, I came into sort of just acceptance with myself. That was sort of the first step.

And then I really did move into compassion and I've since trained in mindful self -compassion because I find it so missing for my clients and students as it was for me. But as we can learn to hold ourself in love and kindness and be with the painful parts of ourself, they have a wisdom. You know, they can actually inform us what they want and need.

Leslie Field (13:18.534)

Yes. And I want to go back and say when you talked about the fact that you were running around the block and that you shouted out, I'm not sick, tingles throughout the whole body. So, wow, what a part of the story. And it makes sense now because I'll never forget when I met Rebecca two years ago, you were telling me this and I couldn't quite understand what you were talking about. And it's interesting that I had to go through these past two years to sort of understand more about my body and more about medicine.

we say allopathic medicine, my understanding is sort of the conventional Western medical model that we have here, like in the United States. And then going and doing all this sort of learning about trauma and what that looks like, how it manifests in the body. And I'm actually so happy you brought this up because Rebecca, I think you're ready to go probably deeper into it, how trauma reprograms the brain, what that looks like. Maybe you could talk more to that and the science of that.

Rebecca Tolin (14:15.948)

Absolutely. Yeah, and I'm glad you brought this up too because I'm not implying that we can just say, oh, I'm not sick and everything completely shifts. But with certain symptoms that are caused by the brain and nervous system, there's a lot of neuroscience now that actually shows the brain set, certain brain centers become more sensitized when we have chronic pain and fatigue. And so they are more reactionary.

and the sensations can be a lot stronger. And so part of my work and this mind -body approach is finding safety in your body and your mind. So for me, because I had been told so many scary things for years, like you're just gonna have to live like this forever and it might get worse, we don't really know, does that create a sense of safety in a person? No, it does not. And so, and when we don't feel safe,

This activates the autonomic nervous system and keeps us in flight, fight or freeze. And that is also what perpetuates these kinds of mind -body symptoms or what we would call neuroplastic symptoms that are being generated by the brain. And then it does it through the nervous system in the body.

And you know, this can happen the way John Cerno and now a contemporary physician named Howard Schuvener describe it is it can happen from any kind of daily stresses. Say they pile on and we're not able to process our emotions and they trigger this sort of danger alarm signal in the brain. So the part of the amygdala and emotional centers that are just looking for, am I safe or am I dangerous? And it doesn't actually matter that it's not.

lion or a tiger because emotional threats and physical threats are sensed in the same part of the brain. And so these days we have a lot more mental and emotional stress. And it can be that somebody gets fatigue or pain because there's just too many sort of stressors in their life or a lot of little things that added up. But it can also be small t -trauma or capital T trauma. And in my case, it was a rape.

Rebecca Tolin (16:33.308)

I was traveling abroad and I didn't have friends or family or really anybody around me when this happened. And my system went into a total shutdown state. It was a freeze state. And that's where I really stayed for many years. And now understanding what I do, it was this wounded animal that needed to feel safe again. But...

Through no fault of my own or really anybody else's, instead I found myself in this impersonal medical system that was only addressing the physical symptoms with things like supplements and medications. And what I really needed was to process that emotional trauma and know that that was the underlying cause of my symptoms so I could address it at the root.

Leslie Field (17:29.158)

Yes. Oh, the emotions, the emotional trauma, the emotions. Oh, gosh. I mean, where do we start with that? I mean, I, you know, I had a woman on my podcast. She's my teacher mentor friend, as I call her, teacher mentor friend. And we talked about how the different movement practices that she teaches that I do that I teach.

Rebecca Tolin (17:34.524)

I love the emotions.

Leslie Field (17:58.896)

helps move that emotional sort of residue or any sort of stuck emotions through the body. And the emotions for like such a big topic. I'd love to maybe dig into that a little bit more.

Rebecca Tolin (18:12.636)

I would love it. You and I speak the same language there, but perhaps coming at it more from like movement or stillness. At first for me, there was a lot more stillness, although now I love experiencing emotions through movement. And I think it's, it's however, whatever portals you have to experience emotion is so important. So what I really learned is that, you know, we often feel like,

Leslie Field (18:14.246)

Hahaha!

Leslie Field (18:22.756)

Hmm.

Rebecca Tolin (18:40.764)

were being told as women or even as someone with chronic symptoms, like, oh, it's in your head or it's emotional. And that is, of course, absolutely not the truth. And for me, because actually I am pretty cerebral and it can be harder for me to get in touch with my emotions, it was helpful for me to understand that emotions are cues for the brain and nervous system to tell these...

you know, the amygdala and other areas, whether we're safe or not safe. And so if we're holding in grief, anger, even rage, if you go through a traumatic event, there could be huge amounts of anger or rage, certainly huge amounts of grief. Even fear, shame, all these emotions, if we're holding them in, they're staying trapped in our system. And that information continues to circulate through the brain and the nervous system.

saying, you're not safe, you're not safe. And so we sort of write it off and we're like, no, no, no, I'm okay. And then that signal gets louder. No, no, you're really not okay, because there's a very real part of our subconscious brain that does not think we're okay and can get trapped in a past point in our life, particularly when there was a very stressful or even a traumatic event. So what you sort of started talking about a little bit, Leslie, really,

resonates with me because a big part of my healing once I moved into this next phase and I said, look, this is the path for me. I feel and I recognize the truth of this is what's happening to me. It's the only thing that makes sense. And I needed to learn the knowledge and because it helped me restore the sense of safety that for me chasing more supplements and things just wasn't going to do that because I had done a lot of that already.

But a really key piece was learning to be with the sensations in my body with mindful awareness. Now for somebody like me who was pretty emotionally shut down, I wasn't encouraged to experience my emotions as a child. It was discouraged. So my nervous system kind of will go into shutdown when there's stress instead of emotional expression. And so,

Rebecca Tolin (21:04.028)

I at first couldn't really feel emotions even after I started having these shifts, but I could feel a lot of sensations. There was plenty of uncomfortable sensations. And you know, sometimes people might say there's numbness in that, but that's a sensation too. And I started going into the numbness, the fatigue, the heaviness, the lethargy. And I found there was this whole universe of sensation inside of me. And it might...

Leslie Field (21:10.95)

So bad.

Rebecca Tolin (21:31.548)

at first just feel heavy, but then there might be like a tingliness to it. And as I kept my attention on it in a process called somatic tracking, often it would morph and shift. And what started happening as I did this both with myself and then also with a mind body coach that I started working with is sometimes that physical sensation slash symptom.

would turn into an emotion, like a full blown emotion. And so I was with the energy say of maybe like a burning. I had lots of burning sensations through my limbs, through my brain. It felt like my brain was on fire. And I would kind of just stay with that sensation with this open awareness and it would start shifting into anger, very recognizable anger.

Leslie Field (22:20.738)

Ugh.

Rebecca Tolin (22:23.292)

and I would just stay with that and then I would kind of let my body emote or move if it wanted to. Sometimes it was just stillness and then I might have a shift of my dissipate. The energy might dissipate. Didn't always. Sometimes it just stays there and that's okay too. But that's when I actually started viscerally understanding that these sensations in my body that I had called labels and names and diagnosis.

were looking for my attention and when I gave them loving, even neutral attention, the underlying emotion could surface and almost always there was some sense of relief after that. I still do this practice daily by the way, so it's not done, it's something I love, but there was a period of doing it with great devotion because I could feel it was medicine to me.

Leslie Field (22:58.564)

Okay.

Leslie Field (23:21.798)

I'm having an aha moment in real time. And I know you mentioned somatic tracking before when we spoke and I haven't, I didn't have a moment to look it up, but I'm starting to realize the somatic tracking is, has a lot of parallels and overlap to the different types of embodied movement practices that I teach that I, and I've also been doing for years because you start with sensation, you see what's there often.

we're moving with music, you don't have to move with music. I know a lot of people who do somatic pie tracking or different somatic practices don't use music. We just happen to be more of a freeform dance. So we're doing, I didn't realize that's pretty much what we're doing. And just more like kind of seeing what arises. So is it a sensation? Is it a thought? Is it an emotion? And we know that they're all sort of interlinked anyway. So I'm just having this beautiful aha and I'm like, oh.

I need to look into some more somatic tracking because it's just going to keep lending itself to what I kind of already do and what I sort of teach and I just want to deepen. So thank you for sharing that.

Rebecca Tolin (24:32.028)

I love that Leslie. And see, I actually love movement. Movement's really natural for me. But at the time, I really didn't know of people doing what you're doing. Right? So if I would have looked into a dance class, that was like the farthest thing from what was available to me at the time with my energy levels. But since then, I've done some movement and some dance where...

Leslie Field (24:44.998)

Yeah.

Leslie Field (24:50.342)

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Rebecca Tolin (24:59.548)

really feeling into emotions and it is very similar. It's sort of like, yeah, what's your portal movement or stillness or for some people sound in order to access this energy that's that's just kind of stuck there inside of us.

Leslie Field (25:07.238)

Yeah. Yes.

Leslie Field (25:16.966)

Oh, definitely. And also you're talking about the sort of shift when you would feel something and how you would feel the emotion underneath it, right? I find and I speak to this all the time when I move and I do these sort of embodied movement practice. Oftentimes I'll come in maybe with, yeah, feeling a certain way, whether tightness in the body or fatigue or whatever it is that day, often it's fatigue. By the end of the class, I am...

always mystified how I completely feel shifted. Completely. And I'm not always saying I end up on top of a mountain and feeling like I'm ready to take on the world. Sometimes I shift into a place where I'm recognizing the truth of the depths of feelings that I hadn't really attended to. And it was residue. It was leftover. It was kind of like, hey, you forgot about me. But it brings me to like, I like start at A, I go all the way over to

D, F, and Nihenda in a whole different place. So it's amazing.

Rebecca Tolin (26:22.364)

That's an incredible journey that you can do that just by moving your body. It's like moving your attention, a word I'm hearing, and allowing the body to move from the inside out.

Leslie Field (26:29.67)

Yes.

Leslie Field (26:35.878)

Mm -hmm.

Rebecca Tolin (26:37.724)

Yeah, I feel similarly with the somatic tracking and even over the years that's what was happening with my yoga practice, even though I could only do it. Usually it was restorative or yin yoga because I didn't have a lot of energy, but I would notice it would shift the internal energy. In yoga, they call it the nadi's, these little channels of energy we have running through our body. And it is like the energy can start flowing again.

Leslie Field (26:49.99)

Mm -hmm.

Leslie Field (26:56.646)

Yes.

Rebecca Tolin (27:07.524)

And movement's a really powerful way to do that, especially when it's framed the way you do, Leslie, where that's part of the intention, is to be present with sensations, emotions, thoughts, whatever comes up, and you're not trying to repress any of it, shut any of it down, you're not even trying to make anything happen. Like, I'm not gonna dance to be joyous, I'll just sort of see what wants to emerge, or what's present.

Leslie Field (27:22.918)

Yes.

Leslie Field (27:29.348)

Mm -mm.

Leslie Field (27:35.366)

Absolutely. Absolutely. Thank you for putting words to that because it's these things we're talking about. I struggle too because it's a deeply felt experience. So deeply felt in the body. And like you were saying, Rebecca, we live in the head, not just the people who are more cerebral.

Rebecca Tolin (27:46.844)

Yes.

Yes.

Leslie Field (27:54.15)

But I'd say many people are stuck up in their head all day long. Makes sense. The eyes are up there, the nose, the mouth, the ears, kind of all the attentions are always up here too. Yet we have this beautiful body and I'm stroking my body as I see it. That has so many, the skin has so much sensory receptiveness on it and feeling, but you know, all the energy's up. So it's pretty cool because when we get to the body, when we say somatic, we're talking about not just the head, we're talking about deeply down, down, down into the body too.

Rebecca Tolin (28:11.514)

I'm going to go.

Rebecca Tolin (28:25.062)

Absolutely. It's like being whole, becoming whole again, when we can come back into that felt body awareness and there's emotion and sensation there, there's intuition. I find that I receive most of my intuition or inner wisdom through my body.

And so sometimes I think when we're on this healing journey and we just don't know where to go and you hear all these different stories of this person did this and this person did that, that it's just so helpful the more we can tune into our body and notice when the body gets excited or when the body gets shut down and it's communicating to us all the time.

Leslie Field (29:03.696)

Hmm, definitely. Absolutely. And like I said, I had this week last week and these are the moments that really brings pause because I'm here talking with Rebecca. I'm doing a podcast. We talk about the body. We talk about being unwell and so many messages were coming through last week and it's, it's a constant, at least for me, this like relearning to just be with them again and again and again. And

That's for me. And we know for a lot of people, we have life and things come up. We're busy. We got the kids. We got our job. We got to attend to family. And the noises I say, well, the sensations, the messages, the messages are there, right? They're going, hey, hey, hey, what about, hey, hey, hey, hey, what about this? And then sometimes it's not until they're like knocking you over the head and literally saying you have to stay in bed. But they're telling us something. There's so much wisdom in it.

Rebecca Tolin (30:01.564)

Oh, exactly. And our culture doesn't support listening to them. You know, a lot of times in this mind, body work that I teach and practice, we start to notice the times where we suddenly got a headache may have been when we were nervous about going to a social event or our stomachs squeezy because we didn't really feel right about.

the way a meeting or something like that. And so, you know, our body and brain are always speaking to us. I think to our subconscious mind is speaking through our body is how I see it. And so it's up to us to discern that, to discern what does that really mean? Because there is a lot of wisdom in it.

And so with these neuroplastic symptoms or a lot of chronic pain and fatigue that's actually being generated by the brain, that can happen with a overinflated sense of danger. So maybe there isn't really a danger in that meeting, but the message might just be that you need to set a boundary or speak up for yourself, or maybe you skip that meeting.

So it's not that it's dangerous, but there is a message in there for us. Something in us is uncomfortable. So it's deciphering, what do I need to feel safer? What do I need to feel more authentic? And it takes attunement. And like you said, it's a process still for me. Like I know you had a hard week and then sometimes we feel like, oh.

Leslie Field (31:40.006)

Mm.

Rebecca Tolin (31:43.78)

What progress have I made? And I've had flare ups at times where I've had all these life stresses. But, and I do know as I move through them and I see others move through them that once you get these tools and you start learning to sort of speak what I call the language of your nervous system, you have those for life and you grow deeper levels of attunement.

Leslie Field (31:45.656)

I'm

Leslie Field (32:06.244)

Hmm.

Rebecca Tolin (32:09.628)

It's a daily practice. It really is a daily practice not to just live from the neck up and, you know, project ourselves into the world like I certainly used to. And like you say, it's more fulfilling to be embodied. It's more sensual. There's so much sensation in our skin and through our whole being.

Leslie Field (32:21.35)

Yes.

Rebecca Tolin (32:36.316)

Now, when you're in so much pain, it's hard to be in the body. I mean, nobody wants to be there. That's why we leap out of the body in our mind. So I was disassociated for years. And it took years of work and this process. Well, it was actually about a year where I was really focused on the somatic tracking and challenging my boundaries. So I really thought of myself as a very fragile, delicate, sick

person because I felt I had been told that and I really worried that if I did too much I would harm myself. So I had to really retrain my brain that no I can do these things and I would go out and start to do things that I wanted to do like meeting a friend or taking a longer walk and so my brain would give me pushback that it would say no no no remember that's not safe with symptoms and so

Then again, I would just pay attention to the sensations with mindful awareness. No, I am, I am okay and safe. I can be with these sensations. And then when they would get too overwhelming, then I would, then I would back off. So this was the process I did for a year, being with the body, also looking at some of the belief systems that were not helpful, that really weren't true. You know, asking them, is this true? This particular belief that I'm sick and broken, is this true?

Leslie Field (33:54.214)

Mm -hmm.

Yeah.

Rebecca Tolin (34:02.716)

No, it's not true and it's scaring me. You know, it's making me feel small. And so I would find beliefs that did feel true, not sort of fake affirmations, but things that were like, actually I'm growing and healing. Actually, I'm very resilient to be enduring what I have. And I see little shifts happening that feel good inside of me. And so I started really working also with shifting the lens through which I was looking at the sensations in my body.

Leslie Field (34:38.822)

Oh, that feels big. That feels really big. That's landing big for me right now. Yeah, that lens and goodness. Again, just because the week that I went through, it's so challenging when you're going through the tough times, like you said. Like you don't want to be in your body. You want to run away from this as fast as you can.

Rebecca Tolin (34:40.54)

Yeah.

Leslie Field (35:05.414)

And just to be really honest, some of the things that were going through my head last week. And again, these were just thoughts that were coming in. And I appreciate you talking about the lens because I've had to sort of in the moment, let them come up. But then like, you know, I sort of flipped the script say, okay, that was that moment. This is maybe more of the truth of the situation last week. Just to be very honest, I was having thoughts come up. Number one, I was, it's the weirdest thing feeling like,

you can barely be with yourself.

Like, I could barely tolerate being with myself, yet I am me and I cannot get away from me.

Rebecca Tolin (35:46.684)

Yes.

Leslie Field (35:49.222)

That one was really, really troubling last week, but I sat with it. I didn't really have a choice because I am me. It is, it is all me. But having that feeling of just not even wanting to be with myself, that was really tough. Oh, that one's heavy. And the other one was really feeling this last week too. And they're not necessarily true. So again, I just appreciate you talk about the lens shift. Last week I kept thinking like...

Rebecca Tolin (36:06.766)

Mm -hmm.

Leslie Field (36:16.998)

I am so broken, like there's something really wrong with me.

Rebecca Tolin (36:20.612)

Hmm.

Leslie Field (36:21.99)

You know, it just, just going, Ooh, and you know, I'm just like hearing that and going, Ooh, I'm sad that I think that I'm sad that that's coming up for me right now. Um, and then having to do the best I can in the moment to dig into that. Um, like you were saying, makes sort of acceptance of what's happening and the self compassion for myself and boy, oh boy, is that lesson still, I'm still learning it. There's still a lot of, um, not very nice.

Rebecca Tolin (36:27.674)

Hmm.

Rebecca Tolin (36:32.324)

Yeah.

Leslie Field (36:51.706)

you know, feelings towards myself, the harshness, being very negative, what's wrong with you, get it together. But thank goodness, it's like, we have these conversations, we listen to these podcasts episodes so that the next time when it comes, can I find a new way, a new lens, a new relationship that's shifting. I might not get it totally together and be the most compassionate, but I can step.

Rebecca Tolin (36:55.196)

Yeah. Yeah.

Leslie Field (37:20.742)

towards that every time this happens, every time I have a flare, every time I'm emotionally really troubled and it all feels very hard and I feel broken. Can I just sit with myself again and do it more, maybe a little bit more of this time? And maybe when I'm out of it, just remind myself, that's okay that you said that to yourself then. This is maybe more of the truth. Like you're very resilient. This is just a flare. You've done this before, you could do it again and all that. So I just wanted to.

share that.

Rebecca Tolin (37:52.188)

Thank you for being so authentic. It takes a lot of courage to acknowledge that being in such a difficult place of not wanting to be with yourself and I've been there as well. But thank you for having the courage to speak that because I think a lot of people can relate to that. And...

Yeah, and I'm hearing there's some awareness though of you are still able to look at, well, I'm me, but there's this part of me that doesn't want to be with me. There's something kind of aware of this dynamic inside and that there's all these emotions, but then there's also thoughts that fuel emotions. Right? And so sometimes it's...

distinguishing I find for myself is like honoring the emotions that are present. Those are real and there's sadness and even maybe disgust or shame and not pushing that away but not buying into the story that those emotions tell or just our own conditioned beliefs, right? Most of our beliefs are repetitive and we learned them from other people who were doing their best.

Leslie Field (39:07.334)

I'm glad you said that, like uncoupling them. But the emotion was there, totally. But yes, there was a lot of mental chatter as well that was happening. But that ranged from very compassionate and loving to very negative. So it's such a good distinction that you say that because that is going to help me next time be like, okay, can we separate this? I'll just sit with the emotion. Can I do my best just quiet all the thoughts around it?

Rebecca Tolin (39:12.41)

Yeah.

Rebecca Tolin (39:18.144)

I'm

Rebecca Tolin (39:25.178)

Yeah.

Rebecca Tolin (39:37.922)

Exactly. And I like kind of saying, you know, I notice I'm having the thought that I'm broken. I notice I'm having the thought that I'll never get better. And just naming it like that can bring in that observer standpoint. So it's not like I'll never get better. I'm broken. It's like, oh, I noticed I'm having those thoughts.

Leslie Field (39:45.742)

Mm -hmm.

Rebecca Tolin (40:02.254)

I like that because it gives my mind something to do because it is going to keep thinking those thoughts. Those thoughts are based on the state of our nervous system and also emotions. But yeah, then the thoughts can keep feeding the same emotional states. I love that I'm sensing a lot of self -compassion in you, Leslie. I feel like that's medicinal too. Self -compassion...

doesn't try to get rid of the thoughts or the emotions. It says, at least the way I learned mindful self -compassion from Kristin Neff, is it's like, look, this is how I feel. I'm struggling. I'm sad. I'm scared. It's human to feel this way. And then what do I need? What do I actually need to support myself now? And that might be words of kindness or gestures of kindness.

just like you would to a dear friend or a loved one when they're suffering.

Leslie Field (41:04.774)

Yeah, absolutely. And what was interesting too was I sometimes was sharing people with people where I was at last week. I thought it was really fascinating because some people wanted to sort of like solve the problem or like, like, there's a to do like, let's come to that that kind of like, Oh, lift yourself up out of it kind of thing. And I get it sometimes in life we have to.

just by necessity, we have to get through the day and it's unfortunate and we have to sort of shove them aside, but we know what that can lead to. But it was interesting because yes, it was just reminding me we don't have a culture, we don't have a lot of people who have shown us how to just sit with ourselves. And I've been really blessed because I have had some people who have helped me sit with me, even though it's still a struggle, even though it's still not always easy for me. That.

Can we just sit with these emotions? Can we do that instead of shoving them down? Because as Rebecca was talking about, when we shove things away, you know, our body, it doesn't, what do I say? It doesn't do great things to our body. It can create issues, right?

Rebecca Tolin (42:15.204)

It's like the emotions are going to be out or they're going to be in and it's beautiful. You've cultivated those relationships with people who can be present to emotions and I'm hearing you say too that you can communicate that it sounds like in some cases to tell somebody I don't actually need a solution to this. I just need your presence. Yeah.

Leslie Field (42:18.68)

Mmm.

Leslie Field (42:38.758)

Yeah, that's big for me. I had to learn that. I had to learn like that. I had my teacher mentor friend who would say, I see a sense and feel so much tenderness surrounding you and what you're going through. And I remember the first few times she would say that I go, what is she talking about? What does she mean tenderness, you know, so it's like even just learning the vocabulary of the words and then attaching them to Oh, that's what that feels like. I didn't know that that's the word and being okay to say I feel a little bit more.

sensitive today or I feel a little bit more delicate. Being okay to say that, which I had to share that with some people. It's not about me like needing to pick myself off the floor and like rawr, which sometimes maybe you want that. Sometimes that's what you want to do. Mine was like, how do I sit and like hold myself in this delicate, sad grief? I just think it's really fascinating. We have to learn that fluency of the emotions.

Rebecca Tolin (43:35.612)

Oh absolutely, I mean it's a skill we're not taught and we're not taught how to express to someone else that we need that and then for the other person it's a big ask because it can be really triggering to be with someone with a lot of emotions if we don't really know how to hold the space and kind of you know not get really sucked into that and it can be so bonding it just really showing our vulnerability is how we truly connect.

And in my love with your example, Leslie, where you're describing that you could say, well, I'm feeling more tender. I'm feeling more delicate. And I feel with that kind of fluency, we can actually avoid some physical manifestations because say somebody was feeling tender and delicate and maybe not wanting to go to like a family event, but they didn't feel they could say that. So what does the mind and body do?

it creates that headache or that stomach ache. And then the person says, oh, I can't go. I have a headache. Now they're not doing this consciously, but I see this happening all the time in my own life and with clients and students where that headache is often a protective mechanism trying to sort of execute what you couldn't either discern or speak or live. I'm not saying it's always that, but it's

uncanny when you start paying attention on this level how there's something beneath the surface that generally just wants to be honored that then manifests in this physical way. I know you're going to a trauma conference with Gabor Maté and I'm such a big fan of his work and his book, The Body Says No, is directly speaking to that. If we don't say no when we mean no,

Leslie Field (45:22.886)

Hmm.

Rebecca Tolin (45:28.924)

the body will say no for us. It'll shut down something and just say, nope, you're not going because you don't actually want to.

Leslie Field (45:38.566)

Wow, you're putting together so many pieces. I'm going to have to re -listen to this again, because obviously everyone knows I'm very curious about the work, this work. I want to know more about the body. I want to know how this all interacts together. And I just appreciate you putting all these pieces together. I had a friend tell me about something she called it, and I don't know where she got this phrase. It must be from someone she was learning from. She called it that.

Rebecca Tolin (45:44.06)

You

Leslie Field (46:02.322)

someone called it the general, my friend's calling it, someone's teaching it, that's the general inside of you. She's like, I know it's an army, a war term, and people might not identify or really like that association, but she's like, when the general inside says no, like it's clear, where she was talking about how when the soldiers are kind of like, like a few parts of you, like maybe, I don't know, okay, whatever, but it's not very clear. She's like, often, how can we find that?

It's the intuitive hit. It's that body knowing. I love that she calls it the general because it sounds so forceful and intense to honor when those things come up. But it is sometimes also hard to really connect to when I get that. But it's reconnecting, coming back to the body, listening again. We can all do it. It just takes some time.

Rebecca Tolin (46:50.62)

It does, it takes attention and practice and we can do it. And yeah, when there's the general or that hard stop, if we override that, like there's generally going to be some kind of consequences that will feel in our system. And so I think it is, yeah, just learning to tune in and honor the deeper wisdom in the body, mind, the heart, the soul, where these multi -dimensional beings and.

For me, the reason I focus so much on emotions and sensations is just because that was the piece that was totally lacking from the 50 plus practitioners I went to. They didn't happen to be a lot of somatic practitioners at that point. And that was the piece that just I needed to be more complete. And I know for some other people, it may be that they need more attention to their physical body or attention to their thoughts.

but it's all interconnected too. So whichever way you come at it, whatever you most need, it's going to improve your whole self. Thoughts influence emotions, emotions influence thoughts. Yeah.

Leslie Field (48:02.054)

Yes, absolutely. I think this might be a good moment to hear maybe a little bit more about your Be Your Own Medicine program. This is how we kind of got connected because you were looking for some support and we have mutual friend named Brand who said, oh, Leslie, you should talk to Rebecca. And I think it'd be really wonderful if you'd like to share a little bit more about your program.

Rebecca Tolin (48:24.204)

Yes, thank you. I love that Brant connected us. He's just one of the dearest, dearest people. Yeah, so what I realized when I went through this year and I felt I had really recovered my wellbeing, my ability to function in the world, but so much more that I was learning about myself. So I...

I felt like I can't really go back to journalism. I've got to share this with people. I mean, I saw 50 practitioners and I didn't learn about this approach. So I did a lot of training and studies over the next few years and I started coaching people and I loved the one -on -one work. But what I was finding is that...

there was a lot of practices and this body of knowledge that I just wanted to kind of download to people. Because I think one -on -one work is irreplaceable and so powerful for just deeper work and working with maybe whatever is up today. But for me, I was really pulling together different knowledge, different practices that was like this whole tapestry that enabled me to recover through this approach. So I wanted people to have that.

And I started developing this program that really just grew over the course of the past few years. And now I teach it both as a live cohort and also as a, I'm putting together a self -paced program. And I've found that people were actually recovering more quickly and more deeply than just one -on -one work. It can be helpful to do both in many cases.

but because there's sort of this group energy, there's group support, but also I'm able to really explain, here's the science of what's going on, and you don't have to be scared of your body or these symptoms because of this. And then there's now, there's I think almost 30 different somatic meditations. So over the years, I've experimented in my own recovery and working with clients and what really...

Leslie Field (50:06.886)

Yes.

Rebecca Tolin (50:28.636)

helps the brain and body feel safe to re -enter the body. It might be pendulation, it might be humming, it might just be that somatic tracking or different kinds of breath work. So I put this all together in a program. It also involves different types of writing and journaling as a way to get in touch with emotions, because for some people that's helpful. And it's just been honestly the greatest joy of my life to teach this course and to see people.

supporting each other and reclaiming their lives. And really, no matter what happens physically, a lot of people are recovering from long COVID and chronic fatigue syndrome through the program. But everybody says, you know, that who really applies themselves? I have more self -compassion. I have more belief in myself. I can stand up to fear or I can set boundaries, whatever it is they needed to see.

they're experiencing, at least parts of it through this program. So it's a real joy and pleasure for me and not everyone could take the live cohort so that's why I'm putting it together as more of a self -guided program as well.

Leslie Field (51:41.762)

Wow, that's wonderful news. So great because then you can reach even more people and they can do it their own time, their own pace. You know, that's wonderful.

Rebecca Tolin (51:55.1)

Yeah, and you know, I work with people all over the world who take this program. It's interesting. It's very international. Lots of Europeans, lots of Australians, North Americans too. So we're all in different time zones. But it's, yeah, when, when I do teach it live, it's, it's a really beautiful community. There's other mind body coaches who have recovered from POTS and fibromyalgia and chronic fatigue syndrome and migraines and back pain through this work.

And so we're able to kind of give this unity, this unified field of support that this is possible for you. And really, I always say at the beginning of it, I invite you to take a vacation from fixing yourself. Because even though people sign up to find some physical shifts, that keeps the brain and nervous system activated when we're trying to fix ourselves, trying to cure ourselves, trying to often fight ourselves.

Leslie Field (52:53.382)

Yeah.

Rebecca Tolin (52:53.724)

And what can happen as people start letting go of that agenda and getting curious about deep inner healing, you know, deep inner growth and exploration and understanding and curiosity and compassion is unique for every person, but it's so rich. It's like people come home to those, those lost parts of themselves.

Leslie Field (53:20.102)

So interesting because it seems, oh, well, that would be so, so simple, right? You just come home to the last parts of yourself yet, we know. Right? You just, you just, just take a break from fixing and then we go and find all these parts and then voila. And, you know, sometimes it is voila. And sometimes it's like, well, it's going to take time. That's what I've been learning about. Just my, my personal healing journey. I...

Rebecca Tolin (53:27.812)

Bruno! You're ugly!

Leslie Field (53:47.91)

I'm in the point where I'm working with functional medical doctors. I still have my somatic practices that I do alongside them. And I'm always humbled in that my human mind thinks, oh, I will do all the things they tell me to do. I will do my somatic movement, which is gonna help regulate my nervous system. I know it does, I can feel it. I am going to take all my supplements. I'm going to exercise. I'm gonna do all the blood work when I need to, right?

And then I'm always humbled when I get back like tests or results or like I have a week where I have a flare up and it's like, you know, it might just take a little bit more time, you know? Things don't, I think we get so addicted in our culture to the speed and the pace and the quickness of how we want things, right? I'll just door dash it to me. I'll just get it on Amazon tomorrow, right? And then your body reminds you, it's like, okay, maybe this was the day. Boom. It's kind of like.

Rebecca Tolin (54:35.804)

I'm sorry.

Leslie Field (54:43.042)

we're in remission, things are great, or maybe we need a few more days. So I just want to say for me, at least I'm in the still more healing to do part.

Rebecca Tolin (54:53.628)

Thank you for saying that. You know, I still will say I'm recovered and recovering sometimes. And I think we're all in different stages, but one thing that helped me with the body of work I practice, and this was taught to me by a biomedical doctor and a psychologist, is this concept of outcome independence, which is essentially doing the practices that help you with an indifference to the outcome.

Leslie Field (55:21.286)

Hahaha.

Rebecca Tolin (55:21.372)

And of course, that just seems so confounding. It's like, what do you mean? I'm doing these so I'll feel better. And what they helped me understand is when I was doing a certain practice because I wanted it to show sort of discernible results, it was keeping my brain and nervous system revved up so that same practice wasn't actually providing relief as when I did it. And of course, it's still a practice, but when I did the practice,

Leslie Field (55:38.404)

Yeah.

Rebecca Tolin (55:50.756)

with this sort of just open curiosity. Like I'm not doing it to get rid of symptoms, but just because I can tell that my body needs some attention. It really was a game changer for me. And you're right. It's not easy just to say, oh, I'm going to give up fixing. I still catch myself, you know, right? I improve myself all the time. Um, but there is a different level of intensity and just more acceptance of like, oh, this is present.

Leslie Field (56:07.878)

Hahaha!

Leslie Field (56:15.236)

Yeah.

Rebecca Tolin (56:19.164)

And whether or not you have a quote unquote physical illness with a disease process, to me, everything we've been talking about still applies, right? Is it's like still finding that space, at least reaching for that space of acceptance. Then beyond that, that space of unconditional love for however our mind and body are showing up.

They're doing the best they possibly can and really our brain and body are just trying to protect us, just trying to keep us safe, just trying to keep us alive on this planet.

Leslie Field (56:56.006)

Just that little thing, just keeping us alive and safe.

Rebecca Tolin (56:57.564)

Just that, just that. And then there can be this like, oh, thank you. Thank you. Thank you for doing your best. And let's kind of, let's maybe redirect a little bit.

Leslie Field (57:09.094)

Yeah, I think that unconditional love, that's a great thing to bring in. I'm so glad you said that. And also from going from the fixing or the fighting, I'm going to fight this thing and I'm going to muscle through it. You can just feel it in your body. You're, ouch, you're all tensed up. Like that doesn't feel like a comfortable, relaxed state. My body is not going to feel like it's probably in a condition to take care of itself. It feels like it's got to fight something.

So I love that you're calling it open curiosity. And I think that's the perfect place to maybe end the conversation just with the reminder of that open curiosity and not necessarily having to push or change or fix. What a lesson in just coming back to that open curiosity. So thank you so much, Rebecca, for being here today.

Rebecca Tolin (58:00.572)

It's so my pleasure. I loved talking with you, Leslie. You just hold such a deep presence and deep listening and sharing. So it's a joy. I'm glad we were finally able to connect.

Leslie Field (58:16.174)

Me too, me too.

Leslie Field (58:21.67)

I'm gonna push stop now.