E4 S1| The Body Holds Many Messages For Us – Lizzie Redman on Living with Chronic Pain

In today’s episode of the Sick and Seeking Podcast, I sit down with strategist and leadership coach Lizzie Redman. Four years after a memorable night in New York City filled with oysters and champagne, Lizzie began experiencing mysterious symptoms that have led to her ongoing journey with chronic pain. She shares valuable lessons and insights she's gained while navigating this challenging experience.

Join us as we explore the complexities of living with chronic illness and the personal growth that can arise from these challenges.

Conversation Highlights:

• Embracing Change: Lizzie discusses how changes in our bodies can be tough yet can also bring unexpected gifts.
• The Weight of the Question: We explore the heaviness of asking someone with chronic illness how they're feeling and the challenges they may face in articulating their experiences.
• Recognizing Fatigue: We dive into the importance of honoring our need for rest and sleep, which can often be overlooked.
• Movement and Joy: Lizzie highlights the role of dance and organic movement as avenues to reconnect with our bodies and experience joy.
• Shared Journeys: Hearing others’ stories can resonate deeply, stirring emotions and sensations connected to our own experiences.
• Mind-Body Connection: We discuss the intricate relationship between the brain and the physical manifestations of pain.
• Nervous System Awareness: Lizzie shares her suspicion that her symptoms may be linked to an overactive nervous system.
• Emotional Labor: The time and effort required to manage chronic illness effectively are discussed.
• Self-Pressures: We reflect on the dangers of putting undue pressure on ourselves regarding our health.
• Community Support: Lizzie illustrates the isolating nature of invisible illness and the vital role that community can play in one’s healing journey.

Quotes:

“When our body doesn’t cooperate, it’s fighting for us.” - Lizzie

“What I learned is that pain does come from our brain.” - Lizzie

Connect with Lizzie:
Website | Linkedin

🌟 Connect with Leslie and Sick and Seeking Community: 🌟
Website | YouTube | Facebook | Instagram

Join an Embodied Movement Class or Wild Women's Circle!
🔥 CLICK HERE for details 🔥

🌟 FREE Support Group: Chronic Conditions - Coffee & Connection🌟
--> For people who are managing a long term health issue
-->We meet on ZOOM once a month at 12pm PT

Like The Show? Show Your Support With a Donation!

Sick and Seeking Disclaimer

Transcript

lizzie (00:00.098)
Okay, sounds good.

leslie_field (00:00.9)
That's fine. This is a recording. We could always re-record, back up. We'll just take a pause if that happens.

lizzie (00:06.572)
Okay. Cool.

leslie_field (00:09.696)
All right, well, hello, Lizzie. It's so great to have you here today with me on my podcast. Thank you, thank you for saying yes to come and speak with me today.

lizzie (00:19.79)
I'm excited to be here.

leslie_field (00:21.968)
Awesome, awesome. So I always like to say the origin story of how I met the people who I've invited on. So far they've always been people in my sort of network, my friends, which is funny because we met at the Bubble Foundation, I guess the year it was 2014. Is that maybe right?

lizzie (00:39.95)
gosh, that is like such a long time ago, but I think I saw in your email you had like question mark 2014 and I don't know either. But I think that sounds right. I was there in 2014. So yeah.

leslie_field (00:50.862)
no!

my gosh. Whole lives and pandemics have happened since 2014. So it's been a lot. It's hard to keep track of it. But you know, I was also thinking about you this morning in that I was like, know, Lizzie, you were not supposed to be in my group of people that I collect who have medical stuff. So what you don't know is I laugh and I have to make humor out of it that I seem to always attract, connect with, or...

lizzie (01:00.522)
I know, I know, yeah.

leslie_field (01:21.882)
put people in my sort of sphere of, you know, influence who are going through some medical stuff. And so you were not supposed to be one of my people, but however, however, here you are. I was just talking to Rima on my other podcast and she made a good point. She's like, we have like infinite number of things happening in our body. like, you know, sometimes it might not work out. we got, you know, like it's, it was interesting. She was reminding me that sometimes maybe not saying it's going to happen, but like,

lizzie (01:32.012)
Here I am, yes.

leslie_field (01:51.714)
It might, and then we deal with it, and then we keep going, we keep living. So anyway, you are...

lizzie (01:55.758)
Yeah.

we can say it will happen, which is like hard to, maybe that's dark and like, don't want to start us off in a dark place, but.

leslie_field (02:00.652)
I know.

lizzie (02:08.461)
like healing is about change and like we're all going to at some point undergo a change in our bodies. Like that's going to happen. That will happen to all of us and for some of us it happens sooner and that can be deeply challenging but also can bring gifts as well.

leslie_field (02:29.064)
thank you for saying that. So we went to a dark place, but we're recovering and it's, not to be doom and gloom. It's just sort of, yeah, like you said, things are always changing. We're, we're growing older and things will shift and things will change. It's having that acceptance. And, and here we are now going to talk all about all of those things. and what I really appreciated about, when I did my prep call with Lizzie is that you are so deep and wise. Like with all, with all of.

lizzie (02:56.072)
Aw, thank you.

leslie_field (02:57.784)
with all of this information. I have all, I write up notes before I speak to people on my podcast. And I was telling Lizzie, I have never wrote so many notes up because I could just tell on your journey, you've been doing obviously a lot of work, a lot of seeking and a lot of questioning and curiosity. And, and that's how you are. You're a very smart woman. I, I, would have expected you would have done this anyway, but it's, it's really showed even when we had our prep chat that

lizzie (03:07.011)
Bye.

leslie_field (03:24.324)
Goodness, you have so much to say and I'm excited to jump into it. So I think the first one that I was going to ask you, the first one, the first question that I wanted to ask you is how are you feeling today in your body?

lizzie (03:39.138)
I appreciate this question. I hope it's okay if I also share that you asked me, you asked this question, which I also appreciated because for me, the answer to this question really varies day by day. And so you could ask that question and what you get in response is like a shaky voice and tears and like, I'm in a

a difficult place with where I am in my body. But that's not today. And I think that hasn't been the case for a while now, thanks to some of the work that I have been doing in some of the things that we're going to talk about. today, if I check in with my body, which is some of the work I've been doing is like having that practice of actually checking in, I can feel some unpleasant sensations.

But I'm okay, I'm okay today. And it's as at the worst that it's been in the course of my journey with illness. And I'm okay. And more importantly, I think I also check in with like my spirit because I find that that has such an influence on how I perceive my body to be. And my spirit is doing really well today. So even if I do have those sensations that I have right now that are

maybe not neutral or maybe have some negative association, my spirit is kind of helping me keep light and lift it up today in this conversation that I'm looking forward to.

leslie_field (05:22.548)
Wow, that's really beautiful how you captured that. It's so true. It's man, there's so many layers and levels where the body's at, where our head space is at, where our spirits at. It's, if only I could just pin them all down and get them to be the same and how I want them to be every single day. But unfortunately, we can't do that, right?

lizzie (05:42.796)
Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I think that question, like, I don't know if you feel this way, Leslie, but like, I do feel like that's a heavier question for people who are battling with chronic illness. Because one, it can bring up, I'll say for me, it can bring up emotions of

while someone's asking me how I feel and as someone who has not always put my care first or put others' ahead of mine, even having that question asked of me. And as someone who has masked some of my symptoms and my pain, having that eye on me can be a little bit emotional at times. And then you have this decision to make.

How much do I share? How much do share and how much do I share authentically to that question, like if it is really about how you're feeling and this like the ups and downs of the reality of that. think when we talked last time, we talked about the meme that's out there in the internet of like the ups and downs of the healing journey of like the twists and turns. And I remember the first time I saw that I felt

leslie_field (06:37.547)
Hahaha!

lizzie (07:03.788)
really angry at it because I felt like I'd never experienced that because I'd only experienced like just like either like it felt like a decline or just like a static line. Now I have experienced that roller coaster and so there's comfort in that to know that like okay even if I did trip today and I'm having a bad day that yesterday I was having a better day and I can remember that and know that this is not going to be my state. This is just my state in this moment.

leslie_field (07:34.936)
Yes, absolutely. It's recalling past remembrances of patterns because I guess I wanted to, share also how I've been doing because you said, I might ask you how you're doing. I'm like, gosh, where do I, where do I start? Well, I, I'm today, I'm feeling much better. So thank you for asking. And to be honest, because it's so easy for us to be like, I'm fine, right? A lot of our cultural conditioning and

lizzie (07:48.918)
Yes, how are you doing?

lizzie (07:59.788)
you

leslie_field (08:04.612)
what we're supposed to do. We're supposed to say we're fine. Well, it's, it's nice to have these really real conversations with people that I love and I trust where I can just be really honest. And you do know, you know, I've been on a medical healing journey for a long time ever since I've met you actually. And, so how am I doing today is much, much better. So my biggest struggle day to day or week to week or whatever is fatigue. Struggle a lot with fatigue where I'm very tired. need

lizzie (08:29.432)
you

leslie_field (08:33.174)
a lot of sleep. Like my sweet spot for sleep is nine hours. And I know some people who don't have a medical, you know, thing they're managing or are trying to work through. Sometimes I know they need nine hours sleep too, but I really need nine hours of sleep to the point where if I get too worn down, I actually need 10 hours of sleep. And then I used to really fight. I used to really fight against this. I get really mad at myself and

lizzie (08:53.742)
Wow.

leslie_field (08:59.118)
I'd say I've only come into peace with this in the past year. It's like fighting against something that isn't going to change. I mean, it could, I could wake up and not only need seven hours the next day and for the rest of my life, but so far I've seen that is not the case. I don't anticipate that's going to happen. It's so interesting how I've just been like fighting against, you know, needing this much sleep. So what happened, long story short is I planned

way too much over the past two weeks. And I knew it, I saw my schedule, and I've been even reflecting. So there's a few things that happened. One, I planned too much. So overachiever Leslie is like, I can do all the things. And my body is just not set up for that. And it's still a struggle to accept that and to come to peace with it and to love myself to realize I'm just not set up for a really stressful, high, intense life. It's just, it's not good for me. And I want to honor that and honor my body.

lizzie (09:31.725)
Mm-hmm.

leslie_field (09:56.592)
So I saw that coming. I did it anyway, but this then it didn't get better. I took that nice little branch and I was like beating myself up like, my gosh, I'm failing. Like I'm exhausted. I can't do anything. And on top of this, I was doing this while I was menstruating, which is like 101, 101 of when are you going to menstruate? Because don't make that weak intense. Like your body is going through a whole process. well, everything all came at once.

It was like I was a walking zombie last week. It was really, really tough. So no, thank you. And it just, it happens. I miss, yeah.

lizzie (10:30.606)
Sorry to hear that.

lizzie (10:36.871)
And can I ask what got you through? Or are you in a different place today, you would say?

leslie_field (10:43.92)
What got me through? even though so it's interesting in one hand I had that like stick or branch from like beating myself up with it. In the other hand, I don't know what's something that's I had like a light delicate feather that was like be nice to yourself and like trying to soothe myself. What was happening and what I hadn't anticipated and it's wild because it's not like this hasn't happened, but it's like you forget it kind of like drips away.

that I forget also, it's not about just the amount of things to do, but it's that my body gets so tightly wound and anxious. So that was new for me to really see it very clearly. Like, wow, you are really tightly wound. You're really anxious and you can't come down. And so that I was trying to use all the tools I had to do it. A lot of them weren't quite working because my head was going so much. My body hadn't had enough rest. The one thing that really helped me was my dance class. Totally reset myself.

lizzie (11:09.271)
Mm-hmm.

lizzie (11:16.642)
Mmm.

leslie_field (11:38.454)
So that was incredible. well, I talk about my dancing on other podcasts and Lizzie, if you ever want to try dance class, got one for you. It's not dance. It's like movement.

lizzie (11:39.901)
great.

lizzie (11:47.842)
I do. I have actually, and I owe it to some of the work I've been doing with healing, I have rediscovered my love of dancing. I am not coordinated. I get really stressed about line dances or things where you're following a teacher. I did one with a roommate in my 20s and I'd never do it again, but organic movement.

I have really enjoyed and I'm embracing it again. even like, I mean, we're going to talk about the body, like just like the body and how important it is and healing, but there's something about moving your body and like freeing waves. I think dance is one of the like cultural, like universal things that we have as a society. And unfortunately, in like American Western culture, it's not.

or certain cultures, I would say, and my culture is white, it's not as prevalent. So I have been trying to dance more than it's alone in my apartment, not at a dance class or a dance studio.

leslie_field (12:47.78)
Mm-hmm.

That's July 5th. Well, I'm going to introduce you to Erin Pace and the movement I do each week, which is pretty cool. By the end of this, I think I'm going to tell everyone to dance. But it's interesting because, I mean, my understanding of like our primal human nature is we always we always moved, particularly the females did not saying males didn't dance, but like we we moved our bodies like as a very feminine thing also to do. And like and with drumming. And I think maybe it's also just getting back to something that's very

lizzie (13:01.228)
Amazing.

leslie_field (13:23.888)
primal and ancient that's in our blood and our bones. So yeah, a lot of us is like, it's line dancing, you know, I have to like be coordinated. And I'm like, I'm pretty sure that's not how it started. Like it was just ecstatic dance and just moving to the rhythms. But yeah, I'm so glad that you found that. And I think everyone needs to find their their thing. that's part of what this podcast is about is like, hey, maybe someone mentions they do like something and it really helps them. And for us, know dance seems like it's supported us. Also that

lizzie (13:35.414)
It's movement, yeah.

leslie_field (13:53.442)
Even exercise I've always have found. Yes, we know the benefits of exercise. Exercise is good. But what I find is it gets me back in my body. It shuts down this head thing, quiets her down and just kind of gets me back into my body when I'm obviously not exhausted and I can do it. But something about being in the body feels, it feels good. But it's also hard to be in the body when we're struggling with all our body things. It's such a conundrum.

lizzie (14:10.37)
Yeah.

lizzie (14:17.154)
Definitely, if you're feeling pain, it's about finding the right level of movement that's going to support you. maybe that does mean it's more meditation and softer, gentler things. But what I really love about dance is it's so joyful. And so when you're in that state of fear or anxiety or pain, even physical pain in your body,

It's a good way to trick your brain into embracing more joy just by turning on your favorite song. even if you are in a darker spot with your health, you can trick it. And you're tricking the brain, but also the body is signaling to the brain that I'm happy right now.

leslie_field (15:06.704)
I totally. And I work with a woman who, I'm probably gonna get this all wrong, but everything has a frequency, vibration, everything. I mean, we're vibrating, we're not whole people, that didn't make any sense. But you know what I mean? Everything is vibrating and there's certain frequency and vibration. So it was really fascinating working with her. She reminded me that even music or like essential oils, they have different vibrations with which they're moving at. So if you tap into them, it's...

lizzie (15:17.55)
Mm-hmm.

leslie_field (15:35.248)
it has, it does have an effect on your system, which I hadn't really thought about. And I'm probably butchering this really horribly. And I'm going to have Amy Dempster on my podcast to talk about this more, but there's something there even about the, your, like you said, the brain and the body, but also the music itself is shifting, like the energy and the vibration. So there's like a lot of things happening that I think we just take for granted. We're just like, I don't know. I like this song. So I'm moving my booty and I feel good, but I think there's like so many things happening and I can't wait for other people to explain it to me better than what I just said.

lizzie (15:43.661)
you

lizzie (15:51.566)
Mmm.

lizzie (16:06.144)
Yeah, I think you did a great job. I think you did an amazing job. My partner, you may know this, but he studied neuroscience and he studied the auditory system. So if you want to have like a really intense podcast interview, you could probably go a lot deeper than maybe your audience is ready for. But I'd say the high level highlight for me and just having conversations with him is that there's like so much.

and our brains and bodies that we're not aware of. I think that includes vibration.

leslie_field (16:38.64)
Absolutely. mean, but you did say that you have an interest in brain science. And I know that was part of, you know, going back to your journey, because my goodness, we've gone all over the place. You talked about brain science and you talked a lot about calming your nervous system and talk to me a little bit about, know, you've done a lot of things, but talk to me a little bit more about like maybe some of the brain science that you've been looking at and your understanding of and yeah, how it connects to you and your story.

lizzie (16:49.762)
Yeah.

lizzie (17:08.715)
Yeah, I can definitely dive into that. And maybe before I dive in there, should I just share a little bit about what I'm dealing with? I don't want to trigger symptoms or emotions for people, because I think sometimes if someone shares a journey that's very much like your own, it can trigger things for you. So I'll try to keep it at a high level, if that sounds.

leslie_field (17:16.176)
Absolutely.

leslie_field (17:36.772)
Yeah, it's very interesting you say that Lizzie because I'm realizing that this is something I want to take a little bit more time with when I'm speaking with people because I know it has an impact for me, it has an impact for you and it will have an impact for other people. And I just want to take a pause because you're hitting on something that I was finding really fascinating. My husband was listening to a podcast episode I did with my friend who was talking about rheumatoid arthritis. He kept telling me, you know, Leslie,

lizzie (17:38.168)
Good.

leslie_field (18:06.35)
I feel like my arthritis is back. He's like, it's something about that episode that really hits something in my brain that I feel like it's back. So I just appreciate you bringing this up and reminding me and saying that to the listeners. And it's something I want to be very cognizant going forward. So thank you.

lizzie (18:09.006)
Hmm.

lizzie (18:24.01)
And it all ties back to brain science. hopefully we'll, we'll circle back to that. And if we don't, can, you can very gracefully bring us back. But that's so interesting about your partner. So interesting. Okay. So where to begin with my, my stuff? I will show that I, I've been on the journey for four years.

leslie_field (18:38.117)
totally.

lizzie (18:54.442)
It really started when I had a sudden illness. When I say sudden, I went from that night before, it was a beautiful summer night in Brooklyn, I went from drinking champagne and having oysters and having a lovely dinner to in the middle of the night waking up with...

something going on in my neck and chin area. And I'm not even gonna say specifics there, but there was a very physical thing was happening, swelling of that area on both sides that was very visible, very much in pain. It was hard for me to open my mouth. And I then, at that time, I was someone who had not had a lot of experience with medical system.

I came from a family that didn't really go to the doctor very much unless you were incredibly, incredibly ill. And so I didn't think much of it, assumed it was an allergy. I went to the farmer's market that night to continue with my productivity and bought beautiful panties that were in season, I remember, and even saw some people there and kind of tried to hide my face and what was going on. But then eventually went to urgent care and then found myself

in the ER because the urgent care didn't really know what to do with me. And it was a little bit of mystery, but I ended up going on a number of different drugs to take care of it and try to treat it. And one of those drugs eventually helped me. But what I found after that is that I had a lot of strange symptoms and specifically

different pain in my body, also some skin manifestations in my body. And it really changed over the course of years, I would say. So I had some immediately after that illness, but then some new things popped up over the course of months and years. And what is both a blessing and a curse for me is that I never actually got a diagnosis.

lizzie (21:14.274)
And I still don't really have a clear diagnosis, which I think is not all that rare in this world of there's still so much that we don't know about our body and our health. I definitely think about long COVID now and all that we've seen come out of COVID and all the different symptoms that people are having from long COVID and how much we still don't really know.

there and I take a little bit of comfort in that, but like, okay, yes, there's a lot that our medical system doesn't quite yet know. I then went on a medical journey. Like I was not someone who had been in the medical system, but I took a deep dive in and I'm a solutions oriented person. So I like did all the things that I was supposed to do. I saw all the doctors and did follow ups and took every pill that someone told me to take and

sought out alternative forms of medication, and eventually and more recently have landed in this world of brain science and really understanding the connection between our brain and what shows up in our bodies, especially as pain. And I really came there at the recommendation from a doctor.

who I saw and found after years of seeing different doctors and who saw me and said, you know what, like, I think that some of this might actually be nervous system related. Everything that you're telling me about what you went through with this whole medical experience and probably some parts of your life have been hard. And it's quite possible that what you're experiencing

in your body and how it's manifesting is actually your nervous system responding and being on overdrive in some ways that are creating pain. And what I then went on was like a deep kind of scientific understanding of pain and how it shows up in our body and what that relationship was in the brain. And what I learned is that pain does come from our brain. It's a signal from our brain that tells us that we're in danger.

lizzie (23:36.306)
And so for me, I have had arthritis in my knees coming, going back to my early twenties. That was quite strange and rare to have. I do get pain in my knees and that's my body saying, you have inflammation in your knees here. You are in pain. It's the same signal that the body would send us if we

touch on accident, a very hot pot, as we're moving it off of the burner. Like it's that same reaction that's happening for the brain to really tell us you're in danger. And you need to reevaluate what you're doing and stuff if that means like take your hands off the pot or hey, maybe you should run less because your knees are giving you issues. It was really eye-opening for me, that discovery, and it came through a lot of fighting.

that idea. And I would say where I am now is I recognize that and I see that relationship for sure of the brain and pain and how they are really two peas in a pod together. But even, you know, in the past, probably in the past three weeks, I'm even re-evaluating

Is it only the nervous system? Is it only the brain? And that's really coming out of an experience I had a couple of weeks ago. I took a medication to treat something really separate from my ongoing stuff. And I had a reaction to it. I think it was maybe 48, 72 hours later, I started feeling pain, fingertips to neck.

some other, other symptoms as well that were very familiar to me to when my journey started with pain. And my mother has the same or has had the same experience with medications. I've learned about this in the past couple of years. And I found when I went off of it, the symptoms slowly went away. And so it kind of left me with my hands in the air. I was like, okay. So like, it seems like this was

lizzie (25:55.768)
drug-related, this is some sort of drug reaction, but if this is in my brain, how is this all related to one another? And I think where I am now with that is that it's a yes and, so it's possible that I do have systemic stuff going on in my body. We have done every MRI under the sun and I do have inflammation that's out of the ordinary at low levels throughout a lot of my body.

but I still have control over how I react to that inflammation and how I react to those pain signals that I'm getting in my body. And that's where the nervous system really comes into play. And a lot of work that I've done on the nervous system has really helped me.

leslie_field (26:45.456)
It's like you say it was, but you said so many things. I'm like, I like there's so many things. It's almost difficult to know even where to go first. I'm going back to my notes, maybe just to help me like because you just first off the confusion on I said what to do sometimes is I guess I wanted to start there. You know, I know you've done a lot of different things and actually I want to hear more about them about I know you've done somatic therapy and meditation.

lizzie (26:45.592)
That was a long one, Leslie.

leslie_field (27:14.716)
so would love to hear about that in a second, but it's interesting because yeah, there's often like, I've tried this, I've tried this. And then now this new factor, this new variable came in that you weren't anticipating and now you have this going on as well. And I just want to recognize that oftentimes sometimes you feel like, like you said earlier that you, you were on your healing journey and you were hoping to have like the, the moments where you felt like you were going

you know, in the direction you wanted to go, which is feeling better and less pain. And you were saying how like, man, I wasn't even getting there. It just was like not even, not even going in the right direction. But it's so, it's so frustrating because living in our bodies, there are so many variables that, that can come. And, and then it's like, where do I turn? What do I do next? And oftentimes you feel like you have to go in circles or maybe you do have to revisit. And I just want to like recognize that.

lizzie (27:51.212)
Yeah.

leslie_field (28:12.272)
It's, for lack of a better word, it's just tough. It's so frustrating. And you we're also, you're doing all this, you're managing your body, you know, the new thing that happened with the medication that you recently took. And like, let's also remind all listeners, and you know, if you're listening, you're probably someone who themselves has been on their medical journey, or you know someone who's on this sort of medical journey. But it's like, you're doing all this, your body's feeling a certain way.

lizzie (28:19.842)
It does.

leslie_field (28:42.33)
you know, and you're dealing with the doctors and it's just so exhausting. Everything is like a lot. You're just like, if only this whole thing didn't exist. Sometimes, and I know that maybe it's not helpful if you're like, if I didn't have chronic kidney disease and I could, and I have found the blessing is in it and I can see the silver linings. However, there's sometimes I'm like, wouldn't that be nice if that whole chunk of my life just like went away? Like I would have more time and freedom and I would.

lizzie (28:54.04)
Yeah.

lizzie (29:01.166)
Mm-hmm.

lizzie (29:08.684)
Yes. Yeah.

leslie_field (29:12.004)
But alas, that might not be helpful to talk about that.

lizzie (29:17.838)
think there's something there. Leslie, I think you're absolutely right that it can feel like you're going in circles in the labor. The labor that is like time labor, emotional labor that it takes to manage an illness is insane. It's like a part-time job. And I'm sure, like I know without a doubt that there's a lot of people listening who feel that or have been through that. And I felt that way. But one thing,

that helped me was to take some of that pressure off because I think a part of how it felt like labor was that I had this, I brought this intensity to healing. So it was like problem, solution. And like the reality is that a lot of my life had operated in a lot of linear ways where I just worked really hard. I saw a problem, I put a fire out at work or wherever it may be and.

leslie_field (30:00.974)
Mmm, yes.

lizzie (30:17.09)
put in the effort and then got the result. And this is mysterious. Like our healing is so mysterious. And so you can't, it's not gonna be do A and then you get B. It's gonna be do a little bit of A and do a little bit of D and then take a break and then do that. And then you're gonna feel a little bit better and then you're gonna feel worse and then you're gonna feel better than you did that other time. And it's gonna keep going. But you'll see maybe like some steady changes in attitude.

at least like that's definitely in your control. And so what helped me was to realize that I was applying this intensity to my healing that was not helping at all. Like I was already going through a lot physically and in pain. And so it wasn't helpful to have this like list of 20 things that I needed to do, like all the doctors and do acupuncture and like, and, and, and put so much

pressure on the situation and on the outcome, that this is going to kill me 100%. Like that is just, that's intense. Like that is intense for really your brain, like when you're going through so much. And so I won't say it's easy, but what I try to do is operate more with curiosity. So if there's a new solution.

and I'll, I'll go back to this example of what I experienced with my drug reaction. It has caused me to have curiosity. That was new. That was new information for me, but like, well, my body responds to this set of medications or some set of medications in some way. That's interesting. That's information that I didn't have when I was on the medical journey before.

And I've made the decision to go back to the system, which like quite honestly, I've been kind of not participating or not leaning on Western medicine as much because I just found it very stressful for me. But I've made the decision that I'm going to go back and share this new information with doctors and folks and perhaps do new testing on my body and.

lizzie (32:39.982)
new MRIs, whatever they think might be needed, but I'm really, really trying to approach that with curiosity and not these like huge pressures that I'm going to go in, I'm going to say what happened to me, and they're going to say, aha, we know exactly what it is and we have exactly the solution to all of your problems. Because I think that's really what

What I expected was, and we talked a little bit before this podcast about perfectionism and perfection. I think it was really, a lot of my behavior was rooted in perfectionism and this expectation that my body needs to be perfect and it needs to perfectly and it is my tool. It is my machine to work and get things done. And that's.

leslie_field (33:27.128)
Is that not true? Is that is that not how it works?

lizzie (33:32.978)
That has been, I'd say, and I know you were laughing because I think you probably feel the same way as me and we maybe have gone through the same struggles of like, yeah, where you're like super angry at your body. And I still have, like, I'm not saying that I don't, I had this probably like a few nights ago where I was like, what the hell? Like, I am trying to get things done and like you are deciding to have pain right now. Like, that is not cool. I'm actually excited about the work I'm doing.

leslie_field (33:40.56)
I do. I do.

lizzie (34:02.606)
that's not healthy. That's not healthy. So I, I, I think we talked about this a little bit as well about this idea of control of the body. through my journey with illness, I have realized how much in general I like to have control over things in my life. And that's also a response to perfectionism, because if you have control,

leslie_field (34:03.867)
How dare I do that?

lizzie (34:30.176)
of all of the things you have a higher likelihood that things will go perfectly. But that is just incredibly, it's an incredibly stressful way to go about your life. And I very much applied that to my body and wanting to control my body. And even as I think back on some of the self care things that I did, like yoga and

eating healthfully. Like some of that was still about control, like wanting my body to look a certain way through exercise, through diet, instead of like, you know, the true, it sounds like kind of woo woo, but like this true idea of like, like caring for your body and like viewing it more as a temple to care for. when it doesn't, when it doesn't cooperate, I do think a lot of times it's

it's fighting for us. like, my pain symptoms are fighting for me to tell me that something is dangerous in my body. And in some cases, because I have also through the sprain science work, recognized the relationship between emotions and pain and how it shows up in the body. Sometimes it's telling me like something's off, like, you got to change something girl. This is not where you want to be.

And I appreciate those signals now for my body a lot more.

leslie_field (36:02.328)
Yeah, you've been on quite a journey the past four years because

You know, I remember when you shared what was happening with you. And I think you were quite open with me because you knew that I had been in the medical system and I had, you my, I mean, you might not know my whole story, but you kind of knew like, Leslie's had to deal with some serious medical things. And I do remember, you know, we all have, and we talked about this and I'd love to dig into this more, but even though I wrote 50 notes right now, because I'm like,

lizzie (36:23.48)
Yeah.

leslie_field (36:34.254)
I just want to touch upon what she said there and I want to touch upon what she said there, but we will, get there. But that you were at the start of your journey. Like you said, you really hadn't been in the medical system. And because I had worked with you, when you work with someone, you know their working style, you know their habits, know how they are. And so I knew the type of person of how you approach things. I mean, you're highly effective. You can get shit done. There's nothing that you...

lizzie (36:51.723)
Yeah.

leslie_field (37:02.8)
can't achieve or do like I know you and you know that about yourself. However, when you go, when you have stuff happening with your body and you enter into the medical world or this sort of like we're talking about the journey of the medical body journey and what that is. I was like, this is I knew it was going to be a little bumpy at first for sure. And but I knew it was your journey to go on and

We spoke about this, that I could have told you all the things and all the guidance, but really you weren't there yet. And if anything, I just wanted to be there as someone who is listening and being present for you and saying like, I hear you and it's, you know, it's not easy. So yeah, I know you've come a far away from that moment.

lizzie (37:54.574)
I remember our dinner catching up after a couple of years. And you know what's crazy to think about is that we were both working as part of the organization that we met each other through in the wellness space. And so it's really interesting to come full circle and see where you are. And also I even think about you did share about your illness, but

leslie_field (38:09.871)
I know.

lizzie (38:24.566)
not a ton, but it's also not, it's not now it also makes sense to me that you came to wellness and like had this interest in wellness and came to that space. Whereas I was in wellness, but I think I saw the power of different wellness practices as it related to our bodies. And like even we were doing work with kids and like how we could build that mentality in kids. I didn't, I didn't.

It's like interesting to see like for me as a leader, was like leading an organization doing wellness work, but I wasn't taking care of myself in a lot of the, I think the self care ways. Like I was eating healthy foods. We were working a lot of nutrition. was exercising, but there wasn't that care for my body. And I do feel like I have that.

a lot more now, but you're right. I was not in a place to receive that message yet, and that's the hard thing. And I think it's true for a lot of healing work, whether you're healing from trauma, grief. I mean, a lot of things are actually tied into illness, but you need to go on that journey.

for yourself and you need to internalize it for yourself and like you never know when it's gonna click for you that the pieces are going to come together and I can share.

For me, I've had multiple like aha moments in my healing journey, which like, when I say healing journey, to unpack that a little bit more, like I'm not saying I am like feeling the same way that I was when I was whatever age I was, like 31, 32. Before I started to have symptoms of illness, I'm really talking about like how my relationship has changed with.

lizzie (40:32.078)
having an illness and my relationship is changed with my body overall. But one of the moments for me that was an aha, is I had been doing a lot of this reading and deep work around this idea of emotions in the body and how they're connected and.

pain science and brain science and I still was like, I don't see it. Like, I don't think that's me. Like, I get pain when I go for walks sometimes or do very physical things like it and I can be in a good mood and like still have pain in my body. And I had one night where I was listening to a podcast about this whole concept of pain science. And it was an interview with a woman who had anxiety, like very, very deep anxiety and

she started offloading all of her anxious thoughts that are just running through her brain. I was surprised at how much there was a part of me that was in her, in her anxiety. It was like me times 10. And I realized that I, it was like putting myself under a magnifying glass. And I realized that like, I I have some anxieties. I have.

I fear and things I'm afraid of that just might not be at the volume that she's experiencing, but it's there. And what was crazy was that I found as I listened to her unloading of the thoughts running through her brain, my pain sensation started to creep, like creep, creep, creep up my shoulder, my neck. And so I was able for the first time to in real time, like see how my body could react.

to emotion in real time. Because I think a lot of times in terms of what's happening in our body in a somatic way, it's happening so unconsciously and on autopilot that we don't realize it. Like we like end our day and we're like, my shoulders are a little bit tense. And like, I know I had a hard day and I had that big meeting and I'm not really like that's probably related, but like it creeps up on us and we don't have that awareness. But I was able to like almost through like, just like.

lizzie (42:50.796)
being in this, like, was laying in bed listening to this podcast, I was able to feel that come up for me in real time and recognize that, yeah, there's a trigger here. Like, wow, that was emotional. And that triggered a response in my body. And so now I take that with me and it tells me that that's a factor. Like, it might be the only factor that my brain has, a nervous system has, you know.

through everything I've been through is just in this like autopilot, we're gonna protect you now mode and keep you kind of in the state of more tension or it's one of the factors in addition to other things going on in my body.

leslie_field (43:34.232)
That was a really powerful story. Wow. To have that moment to see that happen in real time. You know, and it's it takes a lot of patience because, know, that didn't happen one week after this all began. You know, this took years before that happened. And I think that's the other thing that I learned from my, you know, the where I'm at with my body is is it's going to take patience and it's going to take time.

Also, this morning before I got on this podcast recording with you, I had this whole thought that I think is really fascinating. I've never said it out loud. Maybe I said it out loud when I was first diagnosed because I was ignorant or I don't know the right word is ignorant. I just didn't know. I didn't know the information. So it's coming all like full circle talking about patients and I am quite spiritual and I'm quite woo woo and I got to be open to the fact that miracles can happen. And like you said, science does not know everything. We do not know everything about our bodies.

lizzie (44:15.864)
Yeah.

leslie_field (44:33.71)
So why would I cut myself off? anything is possible. Like, so this morning I had this thought that when I was first diagnosed, was 18, so I'm young, I've never had, well, I'd had a lot of medical things before that. However, this was the first really big one where my parents were panicked, the doctors were panicked. I remember feeling really like wild and crazy. Cause everyone thought it was like, you need a transplant now. Like, and I was like,

lizzie (44:52.566)
Mm-hmm.

leslie_field (44:59.842)
my God, I was just doing my finals in college like a day ago and now you're telling me I need a kidney transplant? like, talk about being hit like this side of the head with that. And I'm young and I was 18. Technically I was an adult, but they were treating me as a child. So they were having conversations with my parents that they should not have had without me present. That's a whole nother story. But I still felt quite young and sheltered in some respects. What the whole point of this is that

I remember when they told me about my kidneys and they've done all the testing, said, you know, your kidneys have essentially like withered away or died or they're not firing. When we look at the ultrasound, I think that's how they could see what's kind of working. Or I think we did all the other ones where put the dyes in or something that shows like the blood flow going through. I forget which test it was. They were telling me that the, wasn't flowing through, that a lot of it had kind of like, wasn't showing activity, I guess you could say. And my first thought, which

lizzie (45:50.222)
Mm.

leslie_field (45:53.506)
It's so interesting. It took me until this day and I've thought about it a few times throughout the years, but today it came like front and center. My first thought and I think I said out loud was, okay, well, they're not fiery and they're not the blood isn't going, but like they're going to regenerate, right?

That was my first thought. And then they were like, no, that's not how it works. They were like, it's done. It's dead. You have to eventually they will die and stop functioning and we have to replace them. So it's just interesting this morning that even my brain told me and again, it was because I didn't know any better, but in my mind it was, well, they'll just fix themselves, right? So I don't know. I just wanted to bring that up because like I

lizzie (46:15.47)
leslie_field (46:36.538)
there is a part of me that's still waiting for that day and being very patient that that's going to happen and that I will be the person who they say, wow, we don't know how that happened, but it happened and your kidneys are functioning fuller and better. yeah, I don't know. I wanted to share that because it came up this morning before I came and spoke with you. So I'm having patience around that happening because it's going to happen, Lizzie.

lizzie (47:00.014)
It's beautiful. think that hope is beautiful and it's something I struggle with. that's, you know, we talked a little bit about healing and what does that mean? Because I would say my concept of healing for this was getting 100 % better. And I think I even had conversations with doctors about what do you want? And I was like, I want the pain to go away. I just want to have like,

a day where it's like nothing, there's like nothing there and that's all I want. At the same time, I have had conversations with another former colleague of ours where she talks about acceptance, like accepting that this is her life now and I think I fall somewhere in between.

there if that makes sense. Like it's not like it's not expecting 100 % healing necessarily.

leslie_field (48:00.613)
Yeah.

lizzie (48:11.34)
But at the same time, I'm still gonna fight and I'm still gonna look for solutions and look for improvement. And there's also this idea of how I react, which I think we have talked a little bit about before that I find a lot of empowerment from. And it's this idea in Buddhism of the second arrow that you have.

The first arrow that hits your body, that's the first arrow. And then you have the second arrow, which is how you respond to it. And so that's where I found, especially in this world of the nervous system and its impact on pain. I can't say without a doubt that the nervous system has an impact on the system of our health. And this is where stress comes in and you hear about stress as something to address.

perhaps in your healing journey. But how I respond to that pain or whatever I'm feeling in my body, I do have power over that. I do have autonomy. I do have choice over that. And so I can have pain one day, wake up not feeling as great, and then I can choose to stay in bed all day and like feel terrible and cry and like all of that, or I can...

Take a breath. Check in with myself, ask myself what, you're going through something. Like first let's recognize and have compassion for that. Like you're going through something today. What, how can we serve you today? Like what will bring joy into your life during this like moment of not feeling so great. And that's really where I find autonomy right now.

leslie_field (50:05.808)
I mean, in some days we might have the days where we're just like collapsed and crying and what have you. And yeah, that's that's been a whole thing for me, particularly in the past couple of years, letting the tears just come and flow and just letting myself empty. And for those of you out there who might go through this at some point and you feel because a lot of time. Well, first off.

lizzie (50:12.608)
Yes, and you're compassionate to that person too. Yes, yeah, yeah.

leslie_field (50:32.91)
A lot of times just the way that we have built our lives and our culture and our expectations and just how we function. I've talked about this a lot with other people on the podcast that it's like we haven't really set ourselves up to have the ability to give ourselves time to collapse or to cry or to let ourselves go. And that's a whole thing that's very hard to unpack.

lizzie (50:51.736)
Mm-hmm.

leslie_field (50:57.584)
There's not much we can deal with. Like, you know, we have kids and the kids have to go to school. You have to take them to school. You're their adult. Like you have to, there are certain things you have to do in your life or you have a job, you have a meeting and it's important. You have to be there. And I get it. This is our life. This is our modern, modern world. And I just recognize and just say all this because it's still there if we don't let ourselves collapse in those moments. Cause we have things we have to do, like we have to do, but it's giving ourselves the times to.

I always say, I haven't read the book, The Body Keeps the Score, although I think you were the first person to ever recommend it to me. Haven't finished it. But I always think about that book that what I have listened to is that your body remembers. It's kind of like, okay, I hear you. You have a busy week, but let me remind you that we still have to address this. Like this still needs to be addressed. Like you might have to cry. You might have to sleep. You might have to do something else.

lizzie (51:33.795)
You

leslie_field (51:54.862)
I'm going to need my time, focus and attention. And it is really tough. when we can, we do have to allow ourselves, if we have the ability, to just let ourselves go for a minute. Give it a good cry and just get rid of the shame and judgment around it. It's coming up in your body. It's coming up in your body like it wants to be felt and it wants to be experienced. that's what I was going to say.

lizzie (52:13.838)
Absolutely.

leslie_field (52:21.22)
Well, you're talking to a woman who I had so many tears over the past year when my whole life imploded and fell apart and no, thank you. mean, but it was so many tears that it felt ridiculous. Like it was like, come on. It was like, you have to stop. Like this is like too much, but it felt debilitating. And I'm just saying this because some of us might go through that. It's and like you said earlier, when we were chatting that

lizzie (52:29.368)
I'm sorry.

leslie_field (52:49.538)
It's not always going to be like this. It will change. It will shift. But to ride through it. I mean, that's sometimes the hardest part is just to, yeah, get through the... I always find the tough moments are the toughest. Those are the hardest moments because you are sitting in it. You're in the middle of it. There's no getting out of it. I mean, you can, you could try to shut it down and go do the dishes, but like it's probably going to come back. It's still in there. It's still got to be felt and experienced. So...

lizzie (53:21.12)
It does need to be felt and I'm glad isn't the right word, I, maybe I am glad that you have those tears because I have to imagine they needed to be expressed and they also might've been expressing months, years of tears, of emotions, you know, not just in that moment. And I can say that

what you experienced resonates a lot with me and a lot with this journey I've been on of like mind body practice, which has been such a big part of my healing journey. And like the gift that I've received has been this awareness of my body and that you mentioned the book, The Body Keeps the Score, that the body holds so many messages for us and

there are tools out there and practices out there that can really help us tap into that. And that is a gift that we can check in with our bodies and feel like, there's fear here. And you could even ask that, why are you afraid? What is going on in that chest? Or there's anger in this part of your body. I do think that emotions exist in the body.

Unfortunately, our society has leaned more towards expressing them with words and not just sitting with them in our bodies and listening to them and then expressing them in our bodies through dance, like to kind of take it back full circle to where we started.

leslie_field (55:00.432)
Okay.

leslie_field (55:06.696)
yeah, absolutely. I, the emotional journey, I mean that's a whole nother, a whole nother topic, but just, just briefly, a lot of the sort of work I've been doing to find more ease in my body, more, be more present with my body, is respecting the wisdom that she has. And oftentimes it's not always been me who's been like...

Rick respecting it. It's like my therapist. It's like my therapist. It is my therapist who is the person who was such a great mirror. I love her and she kind of gently reminds me. She's like, you know, when your body shuts down a bit, when I, sometimes when I get really fatigued and I can't really figure out why like, I haven't done a lot or I'm not under a lot of stress. It's usually there is something going on and it's, it's a, an emotional sort of mental experience that

lizzie (55:49.505)
Mm.

leslie_field (55:59.088)
is weighing very heavily on me. It literally feels that heavy in my body and I feel really exhausted. And she was the first person to really help me see how in real time the connection and so many times it would happen. I'd go, that's ridiculous, Janine. It can't be connected to the X, Y, and Z thing that I'm talking to you about. And then it always was, it always is. And it's taken a lot of time to, yeah, find that piece of my body, find the respect for her, find.

lizzie (56:19.704)
Hmm.

leslie_field (56:26.752)
you know that she has this wisdom instead of being in such a fight with her honoring her for the gifts that she's providing to me what she's telling me and you know it's only taken 20 years to get here but here we are.

lizzie (56:38.83)
36 years for me, so it's okay.

leslie_field (56:43.824)
I mean, well, 20 years, guess I didn't count my personal life. I mean, I was just counting the medical journey. I've been more 30.

lizzie (56:52.046)
You were a body before, before kidney disease. You were a body then too.

leslie_field (56:57.084)
yeah, yeah, but I grew up in a sort of environment in a family where emotions are not always expressed and felt in all the ways. you know, it's just so, so important. I mean, I could keep going on a million different places and pieces, but I think lastly, I wanted you to tell about maybe the curable app that you've been using and just share that with the listeners and what you've been finding with that.

lizzie (57:26.796)
Yeah, I'm happy to. I'm always happy to do a shout out to Cureable. I mean, I mentioned that I've been on this journey of really understanding the relationship between pain and the brain, understanding our nervous system and the relationship between illness. And Cureable is an app that really takes people through that journey with the belief that a lot of pain

comes from the brain and that folks are in pain because they're kind of stuck in this place of danger. And so they have an app that I downloaded years ago and because I am a person who really needs accountability very, very recently. So in the past four months, I decided to double down on their program, which is part...

Part education, like really just like equipping your logical brain with this knowledge of the relationship between pain and the brain. Part mind-body practices like meditation that really help you track your body more. And then part doing a lot of emotion unpacking work with the idea that you really need to express and feel your feelings, like however recent those feelings are or however...

going back to your childhood, you need to release those feelings to really release the pain. I was finding that the app was amazing, but I needed that accountability. And I think the last thing that I really wanted was community. And this really ties in beautifully to what you're creating, Leslie, because I felt so isolated.

I think that's true for a lot of folks and especially folks who have an invisible illness where they can put on the mask, go to work, go about their social lives, experience whatever they're experiencing in their body and present in a different way. And so this was really, I felt like the last desire that I had was to be in community with others. So I joined.

lizzie (59:40.526)
which is a program that goes through all those things that I talked about in terms of education and the mind, body work and the emotional and packing work that you do it with others. And it provides that structure and accountability to go through a curriculum essentially over the course of 12 weeks. And it was life changing for me. There's a lot of themes in there that we talked about today.

So I probably should have had like a little footnote. Like footnote, thank you to the Cureable app. But as an example, there's a whole week devoted to perfectionism and how that has-

leslie_field (01:00:21.456)
I could use a whole month of that.

lizzie (01:00:25.314)
Well, we'll do the part two just on perfectionist sounds like, or just our own side conversation on, you know, recovering, recovering perfectionist. But I got so much out of the curriculum, but I think more than anything, just the community. There's so much power and knowing that there's others who are going through the same thing that you're going through. And then when you, you have so many dips and valleys in this healing journey. when you're in a dip.

when you're in a lot of pain or you're even just kind of like hitting your head against the wall in that state of like, this really sucks. And like, why did this happen to me? And I think we've all been there. You have that group to kind of pull you up for a moment and support you. And then you come back to the valley. And then the last shout out I'll give is that I've also been in somatic therapy for the past.

two years, I might need to check the math there. But that's also really, I'd say all of this has gone hand in hand together. That work, I've been working with someone who's trained on embodiment practices and somatic practices to help me tap into my body and help me navigate all this uncertainty and desire for control and

acceptance, like all of these themes that I've really been grappling with. And now I feel like I have this like secret power that not as many people know about that I can check in with my daddy and recognize that I'm feeling anxious or I'm feeling angry or I'm feeling joy or you whatever it is and take in that wisdom from my body to make decisions and

choose my path and take care of myself.

leslie_field (01:02:27.982)
Hmm. Yes. Yeah. It's the taking the time to realize it, see it in the body and shout out again to Janine, the therapist, who I feel like I'm going to talk about her every episode at this point. She, her favorite word, which I always hear in her head, my head of her saying is not just the awareness and recognizing it, but then validating it, like validating like, yes, this is like, cause I can see things in passing or like, yeah, like, I'm a bit like,

lizzie (01:02:50.359)
Mmm.

leslie_field (01:02:56.964)
tired today, whatever. But like I'm the person who needs to like, I have the awareness, but you take a pause to actually like validate that it's there, it's happening, it's legitimate and take a moment. So that's a big piece for me that I'm still developing. Even my intuition. my gosh, we could do a whole thing. We'll do like a part two with Lizzie on intuition as well, because oftentimes I'll talk about things I'm thinking about or I'm feeling or I should say feeling, bring it into the therapy session and

It's she reminds me that I'm not validating my intuition. Even it's so easy just to disregard that thought or hey, why even like something that just keeps coming up to you or like, why, why am I stuck here? Or like, you know, just to even validate the intuitive moment or, or, you know, that's also, think a key piece that maybe that'll help serve someone who's, who's listening. I'm glad validate.

lizzie (01:03:30.733)
Mmm.

lizzie (01:03:51.342)
I like that word, validation. It doesn't show up in my lexicon much, but I'm going to think about it more.

leslie_field (01:03:59.519)
well, if you worked with Janine, you would hear about it all the time, especially if you're me. I'm so glad you shared about the curable app and the somatic work that you're doing. We are going to have hopefully Sarah Beth, who I know I'm hoping to you're going to meet. She too has some wonderful things to talk about the curable app. I might need to just hop on one day and just check it out myself. So I'm glad you spoke about that and all the things. And before we close,

lizzie (01:04:02.638)
You

lizzie (01:04:16.472)
Yes.

leslie_field (01:04:27.676)
I always like to close with Lizzie is so much more than all the things we talked about. Even though, yes, it can take up a lot of her life and her, all the things. She has so much more that, who she is and her life. so this is the moment I'd love to hear about, you your wants, your desires, your wishes, your likes. I know she doesn't mean gumbo. I've tried it. I would like some more of your gumbo.

So tell me about Lizzie. What would you like everybody to know about you?

lizzie (01:05:01.486)
Well, I'll say first that what I have appreciated about this space is actually the opportunity to come as Lizzie who is healing and has been dealing with chronic illness because that version of me actually does not show up very often because I do keep it behind the scenes. And it is, I do have an invisible illness so I'm able

to do that. it's been, it's been, I think it's amazing what you're doing Leslie to create this space for people to bring that part of them.

to the surface and to conversation and to conversation with others. Because we need that. We are humans. We need to be together with one another to find that healing. the other parts of me that I would highlight are that my healing journey has actually taken me on a new journey to entrepreneurship. So I have been

leslie_field (01:05:41.146)
Thank you.

leslie_field (01:05:51.45)
Yes.

lizzie (01:06:08.734)
listening to my body and have made the decision to launch my own consulting and coaching practice, which is really going to be focused on helping folks who are facing new beginnings, growth, change, really navigate that, whether they're an organization or an individual.

And so that will be primarily through strategy consulting at the organizational level and interim leadership at the organizational level, but then also through leadership coaching. And I'm really hoping to bring a lot of my experience, which is how we met when I was the leader of a nonprofit organization and all the experience that I have growing and scaling. So social impact ventures to help.

help others through that journey and through that process. And what I will say to this community is that I am really still deeply thinking about how Lizzie with the chronic illness shows up in that space. I think right now it means that

As an entrepreneur, I'm hoping to find more autonomy with how I take care of my body. And so like more freedom of my time. if I, if I do have one of those days, that is one of those bound days that I, because I have more freedom and more choice and more autonomy, I can have that day and then pick it, pick it back up the next day. And then I have that freedom. But the other thing that I really hope is that

especially in my leadership coaching with others, I use my own experience of healing and how I approach coaching, which is to recognize that we all show up with all of this other stuff. Like we all have like all these parts that we're bringing in. And for me, like a really big part of who I am is going through this. And like, that's a reality. It's not all of me, but it is a big part that I'm bringing to the table. And so I'm hoping to...

lizzie (01:08:25.902)
support leaders who are dealing with chronic illness or, whatever the challenges of life are and like how you gain clarity, how you gain coherence through all of that. So I am welcoming folks out there who are feeling the overwhelm of work and how do you deal with chronic illness and offer that up as well.

leslie_field (01:08:56.548)
Yes, I am super, super pumped and excited to see what you create and what you build. I anticipate Lizzie and I will have many more conversations to come as we are in very similar places in this moment. yeah, and we'll hope I'll have you back for a part two to talk to us about that work too one day. I look forward to that.

lizzie (01:09:15.63)
Okay, that's great. was

lizzie (01:09:20.351)
It was fun, like it was fun and energizing. And I think also it's part of the healing too. It was also really, really restorative to get to have these conversations that I don't get to have very often.

leslie_field (01:09:36.752)
I'm so glad that you feel that way. that's one of the reasons why I wanted to do this. So, and final shout out. I think it's very apropos that the only reason I know about podcasts is because of Lizzie. So thank you to you. So I had to give you a little shout out right now. So thank you, Lizzie, for introducing me to podcasts and thank you for speaking with me today.

lizzie (01:09:57.791)
lizzie (01:10:03.182)
This was really, really, really lovely time. It's good to be with you, Leslie.

leslie_field (01:10:08.41)
Thank you, Lizzie. Thank you.